[BD] do we need spirit prizes at all?

Wed Jul 16 10:12:48 BST 2008

Ahmen to Rama... 

Booo to Rodders...

As yet I haven't won spirit nor have I won a significant trophy, but I for 
one would value both equally.  As to whether it is valued more by 
beginners than experienced players, probably there are a number of players 
(old and new) whom perhaps take themselves too seriously, that would like 
to say the sport can't be played truly competitively and still be 
spirited, but that isn't true and in my opinion Rodders actions at Open 
Tour 3 demonstrate that point conclusively (theres a v.very long thread 
discussing it if you missed the arguement).. 

As to the point of telling teams how they were rated against all other 
teams at the tournament, I'd site an example from Bibione 2006, team A 
recorded disastrous spirit votes from each and every game, the team were 
informed they would not be invited back in 2007, but that in 2008 they 
would have an automatic place - however they were expected to work on 
their spirit in the interim and come back and show their improvement - 
2008, the team return and score among the highest spirit votes at the 
tournament and improve on their ranking by some margin.. the point we 
shouldn't accept truly bad spirit, we should marginalise players or teams 
who refuse to accommodate it and we should provide a marker for teams to 
aspire to, ie publicly identifying a team who is sets the baseline for 
great spirit... 

I think this would all be helped along if we had more naked points in big 
games (joke)

All spelling, grammer and or other mistakes in this texted are down to 
stupidity and laziness, my spell check works fine..

Rama Bowley <rama.bowley at virgin.net> 
Sent by: britdisc-bounces at ranulf.net

16/07/2008 08:55

To
britdisc at ranulf.net

cc

Subject
Re: [BD] do we need spirit prizes at all?

Don't be such a kill joy! People primarily play ultimate for FUN. 
Spirit prizes are FUN.

You're lucky enough to be a highly talented player who gets to win 
tournaments quite often. There are many others who  never get that 
chance, and Spirit may be the only thing they ever win! Why do you want 
to deny them that opportunity?

Rama
(who never won a tournament until Euros - with masters - last year but 
was very happy with the few spirit prizes he won throughout his 
career!)

On 16 Jul 2008, at 01:01, peter robert wright wrote:

>
> i'd agree with much of this, but my issue isn't with the physical 
> trophy. i
> actually think trophies are great!
>
> i agree that IF (a) we should recognise the most spirited team, then 
> (b) the
> TD should organise a great trophy for this.
>
> my issue is with (a)
>
> if you want to credit one or all of the opposition then why not tell 
> them in
> the call (if you are a captain) or when shaking their hand, or after 
> the
> game etc (if not) - this will have a much bigger impact.
>
> rodders
>
> 2008/7/15 Steve G <eurogig at gmail.com>:
>
>> To a partial extent I agree and in the same breath I might suggest the
>> same thing for the actual victors of the tournament.
>> Something tells me Clapham doesn't need another tour victory trophy.
>> Winning is all the reward for your efforts some people need.  Some TDs
>> go all out and get some clever trophies that are really special.
>> Quite often though it's just another standard chuck of glass, metal or
>> plastic.
>>
>> As for spirit, having just watched the European Cup and and the
>> Stanley Cup (the ugliest trophy in the world) it did put into
>> perspective the culture in our sport we can often take for granted.
>> It can be really tough at times during a tough match not to loose your
>> head when down and to understand that a foul called on you was just in
>> the heat of competition and although wrong, isn't worth getting worked
>> up over.  People aren't as good by nature as we'd like them to be and
>> rewarding positive play, be it good knowledge of the rules, good
>> temperament, or good togas, can't be bad.  If I leave a game feeling
>> good I want to credit that team for it and I also feel that if they
>> made other teams feel as good as they made me feel they should be
>> recognized.
>>
>> As for whether a prize is given or not, again I think that comes down
>> to context.  Sometimes is absolutely necessary (anything played at
>> lower or development levels) and other times it's just another bit of
>> kit to take home while the real trophy is the britdisc announcement
>> telling all about how we left everyone we played with smile.
>>
>> Trophies are just symbolic after all and while I do wish some TDs
>> would put some more effort into making them a bit more special I don't
>> think there's any need to get rid of them as they do no harm.  Their
>> presence in the game can at times be secondary, however a watching a
>> young captain collect her/his first spirit award is priceless.
>>
>> Steve G
>> loving the Chris Rock reference.
>>
>>
>> 2008/7/15 peter robert wright <peterrobertwright at googlemail.com>:
>>> all this discussion about scoring got me thinking......
>>>
>>> yes, spirit is important. obviously
>>> yes, all (espec new) players should be inculcated in what spirit is 
>>> and
>> what
>>> fair play is by their peers/captains.
>>> yes, we should care about whether games are spirited or not.
>>> yes, we should discuss the spirit of games during and after games 
>>> with
>> each
>>> other.
>>>
>>> but...
>>>
>>>   - do we need a spirit winner of the competition?
>>>   - is rewarding people with a trophy (or some alcohol!) for acting
>>>   according to an assumed and fundamental premise of the sport what 
>>> we
>> should
>>>   be doing?
>>>
>>> i'm not so sure this idea of a spirit winner is such a good thing.
>>>
>>> to reward the most spirited team seems to me to be like rewarding the
>> person
>>> who commits the least murders....(i realise that's an imperfect 
>>> analogy,
>> so
>>> be kind!).
>>>
>>> my point is not dissimilar to (though hopefully less controversial 
>>> than)
>>> chris rock's famous rant in his stand-up set:
>>>
>>> *N*****s always want credit for some sh*t they're supposed to
>> do....They'll
>>> say something like, "Yeah, well I take care of my kids." You're
>>> *supposed*to, you dumb motherf***er. "I ain't never been to jail."
>>> Whaddya want? A
>>> cookie? You're not *supposed* to go to jail, you 
>>> low-expectation-having
>>> motherf***er!*
>>>
>>> but ditching the prize doesn't necessarily mean not doing spirit 
>>> scores.
>>> couldn't we....
>>>
>>>   1. score the opposition (however we deem best), either anonymously 
>>> or
>>>   not,
>>>   2. hand them in to TD
>>>   3. then the TD *JUST gives them out to the relevant team captains 
>>> at
>> the
>>>   end* - so i would be given fire's scores from other teams. *no 
>>> prize,
>> but
>>>   feedback nonetheless. *
>>>
>>> thoughts???
>>>
>>> rodders
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> BritDisc mailing list
>>> BritDisc at ranulf.net
>>> http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
>>> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------
>>
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