[BD] Fw: Tour 0 - The Price

Thu Feb 15 14:15:37 GMT 2007

I think that the idea of someone altruistically running a tournament
exclusively for the benefit of the sport and its participants is laudable,
but in the real world TDs have jobs and lives; there has to be an incentive
for them to do it in the first place, and that's usually going to be fiscal.
Expecting a TD to make little or no profit on a tournament is unrealistic.
Also, the sport isn't, I don't think, big enough in the UK to justify hiring
someone to run every tournament on behalf of the UKUA.

I also agree with the comment made yesterday regarding an individual cost. I
don't think that £15-18 per person to participate in a two day tournament is
unreasonable.

Perhaps, then, a halfway house for consideration would be for the UKUA to
fix a price per team for all Tour events for the year, charged and
administered by the UKUA, and then invite the TDs to run the tournaments as
open book exercises with an agreed profit share per TD irrespective of
location? So as some fag packet figures:

Open Tour x 4 x 40 teams x £160 per team = £25,600
Mixed Tour x 4 x 24 teams x £160 per team = £15,360

Total Tour income over the year = £40,960.

Let's then say that the most expensive Tour event to run costs £5,600
(£140/team) and the least expensive £4,800 (£120/team). Average profit over
the year works out to around £30 per team - multiply that by 40 teams and by
8 events, that's a total annual profit of £9600. Split between 8 TDs, that's
a margin of £1200 / event - enough to make it worthwhile, but also keeping
entry fees for teams at a managed and acceptable level. TDs also then have
the ability to make additional personal margins from whatever services they
see fit to provide on top of the basic tournament provision (merchandising,
food stalls etc), and there's also even the scope for the UKUA to make an
annual margin from Tour to put towards development or whatever.

I realise that there are holes in this theory (the obvious one that stands
out is that under my very rough figures the TD of a Mixed event makes the
same money for running a smaller event, although that's just an exercise in
juggling the numbers), but in principle it might be worthy of consideration.

Personal views and not those of my club etc (most of them don't understand
sums and stuff anyway).

Pablo
3
Flaming Galahs

On 2/15/07, Jonathan Kinsey <jon_kinsey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry but you are well out of touch of reality.  Go wild and do all

these things and more yourself.  What?  You want someone else to do it
> for you?  Well pay for it then.
>
> I'm all for constructive comments on bettering ultimate, tournaments,
> etc.  I can live without moaners that want the moon on a stick and to
> pay less for it and someone else to do it for them...
>
> Jon
>
>
> Luke Gomm wrote:
> >  Well put! I'd also like to make a suggestion of promoting the sport in
> schools etc, more investment for coaching workshops . How about an extra
> "Ultimatum" magazine during the year. How about free physio at the venue
> too. Price rises above inflation is GREED!
> >
> > Most of all I'd like to see some investment into a proper promotional
> video that can be put on a DVD and sent out to schools etc that is FREE! and
> can be copied a distributed by anyone. I've not seen anything available and
> if there is a DVD out there then it has been poorly promoted.  I'm sure the
> "Voice of Ultimate" Mr Tom Styles would be keen to do this if the funding
> were available.
> >
> > I know that every time I go to my village green for chuck about I am
> swamped by scores of kids ranging from 4 to 13 yrs that are so enthusiastic
> and amazed and beg me to come to their school. Some of them even come
> knocking on my door asking when next I'm going go to the village green. Now
> if that is not an incentive to promote the sport . . .  Zulu 88 BAF
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:53:06 +0000> From: eurogig at gmail.com> To:
> britdisc at ranulf.net; admin at ukultimate.com> Subject: Re: [BD] Fw: Tour 0 -
> The Price> > Um...£180?> > The trend is continuing to get a bit out of
> control. The last> official outdoor event of 2006 was Nationals which set a
> precedent of> charging a rather large £180 team fee.> > Now sure enough,
> first event of 2007 and we see £180 a team opening> the door for all other
> TDs to charge the same or more. These are> tournaments that most teams have
> to attend if they want to play the> tour (which is most). Probably up to
> 40-50 teams will go to this.> > First some history...> Tour 1 2002 (Clifton)
> - £145> Tour 1 2003 (Clifton) - £145> Nationals 2003 (in London!) - £150>
> Tour 1 2004 (Clifton) - £150> Tour 1 2005 (Clifton) - £150> Mixed Tour 1
> 2005 (Clifton) - £150> Nationals 2006 - £180> Tour 0 (Clifton) - £180> Each
> of these years Clifton and/or Nationals have been the most> expensive
> events.> > How about some math
> ..> Being pessimistic assuming only 40 teams...£180 * 40 = £7200> > For
> this total price the players get pitches, camping (nationals> didn't even
> have this without paying extra last year), party and> prizes. Food is
> extra.> > The venue will charge a set fee for the lined pitches and the
> camping> spaces if provided. The schedule will be written by the DoC. Any>
> estimates? Highfields in Nottingham is around £1500...> > I'm just looking
> at the amount of work required and seeing the pricing> going up and up. It
> was asked at the UKUA conference for more> visibility (again) on tournament
> bids and the response was something> to the tune of..."it was felt that TD's
> should not be forced to> disclose their financial information (whether
> personal or for a club)> to the ultimate community". It's an interesting but
> not unexpected> comment given the two most potentially profited from events
> last year> were run by UKUA committee members.> > So if a venue costs £3000.
> Maybe London or someth
> ing. A TD might pay> £200 on prizes. So there's £4000 left over. If you've
> got a good> job...a real good job you would work full-time for two full
> months> (aprox 320 hours) to make this kind of money.> > What would be great
> is considering this is a EUC GB team year is to> see the money from UKUA
> Tour events go towards helping these teams (or> at least the Juniors)
> practice and attend the European event in> Southampton and World event next
> year in Vancouver (which is going to> cost the attendees a bundle). Better
> than going into the pockets of a> few people lucky enough to have a hold on
> a good venue.> > In addition/closing...at the conference that it was
> suggested we> devise a plan to keep tournament prices down but they could
> not think> of an effective one, bar the> teams paying the ukua and the ukua
> paying for the pitches, which might> raise some tax issues.> > If the trend
> continues, given the now 9 UKUA events a year with a> minimum profit of
> around £4000 we're talking £3
> 6000 of potential> earning that could go into developing the sport,
> funding national> squads, juniors programs that instead just disappears at
> the moment.> > Bring back the days of Kev Lowe's £80 charity tournament
> which I'd> have happily paid £180 for.> > Steve> > > > > > > On 14/02/07,
> Adam Batchelor <adam.batchelor at virgin.net> wrote:> >> > TOUR ONE BRISTOL>
> > Ultimate Tournament> > 30th of March and the 1st of April> >> >
> www.bristoltours.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> >> > Dear All> >> > You are invited
> to Bristol Tour Zero, the official UKU Tour qualifying event, which will be
> held at Clifton College Sports Ground, Abbots Leigh, Bristol on the weekend
> of the 30th of March and the 1st of April. The deadline for all entrants is
> 16th of March> >> > THIS TOURNAMENT SEEDS ALL TEAMS, OTHER THAN THE TOP 4
> FROM LAST YEARS NATIONALS, FOR TOUR1, BOTH A & B TOURS. IE 1ST AT TOUR 0 IS
> SEEDED 5TH AT THE A TOUR AND 13TH AT TOUR 0 IS SEEDED 1ST IN THE BTOUR.> >>
> > ENTRY FEE - £140 for all stude
> nt teams and £180 for all other teams.> >> > A separate Women's division
> may be run alongside dependant on the entry levels.> >> > CAMPING/B&B - On
> site camping available (free of charge) with 24hr toilet facilities open to
> all. Changing rooms with hot showers will be readily accessible. A list of
> local B&B / Guest Houses is attached.> >> > The campsite will be accessible
> from Friday evening, and the sports ground is keeping their bar open until
> around 2300hrs for anyone wishing to have a few beers before bed.> >> >
> GRUB/PARTY - A cheap food option of pasta and other quick stuff is available
> all day Saturday and Sunday as well as Saturday evening, followed by a party
> and a bar with a late licence until 1am.> >> > DIRECTIONS FOR THE SPORTS
> GROUND - From North, South, East or West: M5 - exit at Jct 19. Follow A369
> towards Bristol for approximately 4 miles on a windy road through small
> villages until you see a narrow turning on the right hand side signed posted
> for Clifton Sport
> s Ground. (Watch out as this turning can creep up on you - if you get to
> the traffic lights, you have gone too far! - this does not include the
> pedestrian crossing lights at the George Inn at Abbots Leigh Village).> >> >
> CAMPSITE - Instead of turning into the sports grounds you continue up to the
> traffic lights and turn right. 350 yards on the right hand side you will see
> a gate. This is the entrance to the camping area. Please pitch your tents in
> the bottom right hand side of the field.> >> > Matt & Adam> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > Tour Zero> >> > E-mail address: matteedwards at yahoo.co.uk> >
> Mobile: 07966 577 563> > BRISTOL TOURS> > Ultimate Tournament> >> > Please
> send all entry forms to> >> > Mathew Edwards> > 7 Sloan Street> > St George>
> > Bristol> > BS5 7AD> >> > I ENCLOSE MY CHEQUE FOR £.............> >> >
> Please insert a cheque with the following written on the reverse> > Team
> name, team contact phone number
> and email address> > Make payable to Mathew Edwards. Any comments you can
> supply on seeding position would be helpful.> >> >
> NAME:...............................> >> >
> TEAM:...............................> >> >
> ADDRESS:.............................> >> >
> ..............................................................................>
> > POSTCODE:.............> >> > TEL:.................MOBILE:...........> >> >
> E-MAIL ADDRESS: ............................> >> > Team Seeding Details> >>
> > _____________________________________> >> >
> _____________________________________> >> >> >> >> >
> __________________________________________________> > BritDisc mailing list>
> > BritDisc at ranulf.net> > http://fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc>
> > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp> >> >
> __________________________________________________> BritDisc mailing list>
> BritDisc at ranulf.net> http://fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc>
> Staying informed - http://www.ukulti
> mate.com/informed.asp
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get connected - Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live
> Messenger now.
> >
> http://get.live.com/messenger/overview__________________________________________________
> > BritDisc mailing list
> > BritDisc at ranulf.net
> > http://fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
> > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> BritDisc mailing list
> BritDisc at ranulf.net
> http://fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp
>